Buttarelli: a traffic light is not enough to drive all our choices

Brussels – Making a thorough and continued analysis of the historical data of those crossing the Morandi bridge of Genoa could have helped in better understanding the stability risks. “I have nothing to say about the checks performed, of course, as it is not my responsibility; however, the power of data we launch online can also help in such things.” Giovanni Buttarelli, European Data Protection Supervisor, is one of the world’s leading experts on the matter: for instance, he is the one who personally wrote the foundations of the Italian legislation on privacy and data protection. Since 2014 to date, he has been in Brussels, where, the 40^th International Conference of Data Protection and Privacy Commissioners (ICDPPC) will be held from October 22 to 26. Buttarelli and his office had applied for the possibility to hold this event, and they were awarded the competition with a project called “Debating ethics: dignity and respect in data driven life”.

This is “a step forward towards ‘dignity’: as a user, I no longer feel respected as I am no longer in control of my context, and because I have nothing in exchange for all data I give”, Buttarelli explains in an interview to Eunews, warning that “in a few months, it will dreadful to understand how much big data companies know us, how much they can control us, creating disparities we cannot even imagine; for instance, fixing an optimized price for a good to get the highest profit from a person – but this price could not necessarily be the same for everyone.”

Eunews – Let’s move one step at a time. Why a four-day discussion, in a context like the European one, where laws are at the base of every regulation, where any decision is founded on the search for the “legal basis”? Could ethics be manipulated, changed, following this thread?

Buttarelli – The fourth industrial revolution, the Internet of Things, the data collected online, they all raise issues that cannot be resolved only with a mere regulatory approach: even if everyone fully abided by the rules, several issues concerning antitrust, privacy, consumer rights, would remain unsettled. The future society, which in our event we will try to imagine 15 years from now, will be very different, with problems currently unknown on issues such as national sovereignties, collective rights, and democracy, even the electoral one. The power of information is in the hands of a few organizations, but what is given us back, how the society and the individual citizens providing a precious, priceless good, can benefit? Data will be used to do business, which is OK, which can be regulated, but if it affects the development of society, for example in electoral clashes, as there wouldn’t be competition on equal footing, with great power in the hands of few companies…”.

E – That is to say, one thing is to sell a pot and then a ladle, but if one can influence the citizens’ political or ideal choices, the matter is different.

B – It is very different indeed. In China, some municipalities collect personal data, with information provided by neighbors or colleagues. The authorities want to have tools to decide whether to reward someone or not. Well, now they are doing it in China, and mostly with ‘manual’ tools, but China is emerging as the ‘new Silicon Valley’, the most advanced in the world, which is about to peak. What are they going to do with the data they collect? And what about India, where all citizens’ biometric data are collected, or Iceland, where a similar kind of cataloguing is being made. Technology allows and will allow us to make things that are currently inconceivable – for example a judge will be given the possibility to decide what penalty will to impose on the basis of an algorithm that assess the social dangerousness of the subject, the probability of repeating the offence. Algorithms can be applied on everything. There are rules on data, but it is easy to consent to their use because, for example, if you do not agree you cannot have Facebook, and then you’re out of the loop. If I want to stay in a community I have to accept its rules, which on the other hand allow a capillary analysis on me. Our event deals with this, we must understand if we are interested in this dimension, so far from the purely legislative one: I say we are.”

E – Isn’t ethics a shared approach?

B – Some companies see it as an element that can help making rules less prescriptive, others are afraid they can make rules less effective. The world of justice is in favor of it, as there is a link between ethics and law. Someone instead is afraid that other rules would pile up to those established by the law. This is why the debate is useful, and I hope that almost one thousand people from 81 countries who will be joining the Conference, will be also travelling home and think ‘will, this was a useful journey’. I have to say that we will also have a part of the conference with closed-door talks on AI, as this is a field that requires us to share information with policy makers, to have privacy ‘incorporated’ right away, otherwise it would be too late. Teaching a self-driving car that a green traffic lights means ‘cross’, while a red one means ‘stop’, is not enough, you must consider other elements such as: what to do if a child appears when it is red? Or if an old man struggles in completing his crossing, or if a ball is thrown in the middle of the street? One should stop or not? A traffic light is not enough information, and this is all the more important because the dialogue will be increasingly done between machines, with our mobile phone in our pockets we will open doors or start the cars, we will pay, with presets that we do not completely control. Now, we are accumulating a lot of information, which can then be used in many different ways.”

E – All these applications will bring profits to someone, companies are already earning just by controlling our data…

B – What am I given in exchange for the data they get though? This is another problem. The computer scientist and American philosopher Jaron Lanier argues that we should be paid for every ‘quote’ made of our data, that is to say, every time one sees a targeted advertising on Facebook there should be a percentage of the payment those who see it too. We have also identified problems regarding competition, and this is why we will also host the Commissioner of the EU Ms. Vestager, and Tim Berners-Lee, the inventor of the World Wide Web, who will propose a new network protocol, less centralized. The questions we ask ourselves are many, from whistleblowers – are they ethical, or are they traitors? And then, it is right for adopted children to know who are their parents? Only in some cases, for medical reasons, always, never…Many questions do not have an answer that can be a mere ‘yes’ or ‘no’, in which the solution is only legal. The new, upcoming world, will require this kind of assessments, and we have to understand if regulators are entitled to make them, and to which share.”

E – The 5G is finally coming in Italy, which is not only an extraordinarily fast network but also the possibility of creating processes that are currently inconceivable for most of us.

B – It will be quite a leap forward (before the 6G, 7G and so on arrive), of course I have nothing against it, I do not want to stop the innovation. Still it will certainly increase the risks concerning the protection of personal data. We will have to understand what new features will be available, it will be something like the transition from the analogical phone to the digital one, with all the new features it brought, which at the time were unexpected. New precautions will have to be taken, but maybe the old rules will be enough to give the necessary guarantees.

E – Lastly, an unavoidable question on the new regulation on data protection. Recently, Italy approved its application rules, which provide for the regulator to identify simplified modalities for SMEs. What do you think about it, how far can the Italian regulator go?

 B – I have already expressed my concerns about the draft Italian decree during a hearing at the Senate. At present, for all sorts of reasons, the European Commission has reserved the right to evaluate the newly adopted text. I would also take some time to reflect on the approved text. However, it seems to me things have been made quite in a hurry… For example, the tailor-made approach for SMEs and for those who hold a VAT number, is necessary, and I mentioned it during the hearing at the Senate, but a ‘national’ forecast was actually not needed, because the GDPR already provides for it. Now, the Italian Regulator will be able to identify good practices for SMEs, for instance by helping them avoid using ‘consultants’ who offer their services at a disproportionate cost as compared to the needs of a single trader, as it usually happens.”